The truth is as a Christian (at a Christian university) and a feminist (and no that is not an oxymoron) these are issues I struggle with daily. Christian faith is splintered into so many different units and on my campus nearly every week it seems there is some ongoing discussion on modesty (and pacifism, ethical jobs for Christians, multiculturalism, should Christians ever be rich, missions, forgiveness, etc). My campus is by and far modest and although this has not happened to me, some ladies I know have been approached by men and informed that their short skirts were "inappropriate" and causing them to "stumble" (giving the men sexual urges they were apparently not in control of). The most frustrating thing to me is that the rules of modesty are written by men for women. If we dress modestly for them, then they are defining the social rules, they are controlling our sexuality and defining us as sexual objects--rather than as sexual beings. What sort of social freedom do we have when men are still allowed to define how we dress, talk, or where we work?
A large problem to arises from the fact that men will complain of girls sunbathing on campus while playing football shirtless on the nearby lawn. Why is a man the only one visually turned on by the naked form? Women have sexual urges as well, and eyes in their heads. Or maybe it is merely the women have the self-control to look away or control their urges; if this is the case then we are animalizing men, instead of respecting them enough to expect they show self-restraint.
This might be an issue largely caused by living on a college campus--I often point out to boys who are concerned about women dressing modestly that they should leave our school and see how women are in the real world and stop expecting us to coddle them from it--but I am curious to hear some of you weigh-in. Have any of you ever encountered or struggled with this issue? Maybe a jealous boyfriend wanted you to change the way you dressed once you started dating? We dress men (layering out matching socks and such) can we really blame them for trying to dress us? And for that last question, I still say no man shall dress me unless he is a very talented designer...
And what I am wearing (modesty in tact):
27 comments:
Great post. Especially the point about men setting the rules for modesty in women's dress. That's really about possessing someone and controlling; I don't find anything spiritual or religious in that at all. And no one has ever tried to change the way I dress. How can you tell? Because I've never murdered anyone.
I don't think anyone has the right to tell another person how to dress, its a freedom of choice. What really gets my goat though is when men accuse women for 'provoking' them by dressing to sexily. Are they really so incompentant that they are unable for any type of self control? For me, it just another form of bullying.
Rants aside (sorry, I do go on), you outfit is fantastic as usual.
It isn't just men who do it, to be honest, since a fair few women seem to buy into that attitude too- some of the harshest criticisms of a certain mode of dressing I've ever heard(on grounds of 'impropriety') came from the female nuns at my old school. More recent evidence of that attitude can be seen in the number of people posting derogatory comments about the Scandinavian blogger girls' tendency to wear short skirts when taking pics of themselves.
Personally, I've never understood it either- this value judgment regarding how people dress is not something I like being subjected to.
I've never allowed another person to tell me how to dress. Usually their suggestions/instructions only prompt me to continue along my own merry way. I don't think another person should ever tell somenoe how to dress. They should dress in a manner they think is appropriate and leave others to do the same.
And for the record: I don't think any of your outfits are immodest.
betty
i think that its so annoying that certain men can not accept responsibility for their own impulses.
It completely surprises me that men would have the gall to go up to women and tell them (essentially), "The way you are dressing is arousing me. Please change." I find it fascinating, since apart from an extremely small minority on my campus [who are regarded as slightly loony by everyone else (not because they promote modesty, but for other recent ridiculous events)], I couldn't imagine this happening at all on my campus.
Of course, many of the straight men here won't notice what you're wearing anyways unless it involves a miniskirt and copious amounts of cleavage, and don't appreciate the aesthetics of a modest well-put-together outfit. In fact, I find it more likely that here (and I'm sure other places too), women are more likely to judge women who dress immodestly than men. I have no idea what this means for gender politics, but there you go.
(PS I finally figured out how to link to my journal hooray!)
- Nadya
^Wendy, yes I didn't really touch on the religious aspect. I guess what emerges is the many Christians believe in saving themselves for marriage, so stumbling blocks beforehand are bad. Also, there's just a lot of hoop-la of what a "good little Christian girl" can be. The truth is, many of these ideas of good women are based on culture not the biblical teachings. Nowhere in the Bible does it say women marry, pop out children and learn to cook well. There's even evidence that Jesus had female disciples. But all that is information for another type of blog.
wow that is almost shocking to me, i got ot a very liberal private school and the most tellingoff i've ever recieved was a teacher, a true authority figure, telling me my skirt is too short, it's always ironically a female teacher who complains, never male, but i would never expect to hear a boy say that to me. neverthless i fully agree with you
oh and thanks for your comment on my blog about colleges, you're right, there are smart people everywhere, not just the one or two college that reject/defer you. and it almost in no way reflects your academic abilities based on where you go because the college process is so ridicuously competitive these days, its all arbritrary. besides, umm i kinda forget to say i have already been accepted to one school, and a good one at that, just not my top choice, so i'm aware im not a total loser, still your nice comment was very much appreciated. thanks, this is why i have a blog for positive feedback
The sad thing is that women do this kind of thing to each other, too. So when you say "the most frustrating thing to me is that the rules of modesty are written by men for women" - my experience is that it is yet more frustrating to find that women are subscribing to these rules themselves, and imposing them on other women, in most judgmental ways.
very interesting post, food for thought for sure
good point how they dont treat women as sexual beings, just sexual objects
love your (modest) outfit!
I want those blue socks!
Funny you should write a post about this. The other day I was in the trainstation, my skirt was by no means short, it was a pencil skirt past my knees, and I wore fishnets with medium sized heels. All of a sudden these three guys standing near me start talking about "my kind". Saying that "my kind" invited men with my provocative clothing. I pretended I didn't hear them even though they were within earshot. I felt lousy after that. Because I come from a very christian family as well, and modesty has always been something I keep in mind. To be called immodest and provocative bothered me with my religous background. But then I realized heyy I'm christian but that doesn't mean I'm going to wear a potatoe sack that reaches my ankles. Different people are going to have different views on what modest is but that doesn't mean we have to conform to them or judge them.
Cute pop socks! LLG xx
Well... I was a tomboy when i was young. It was my boyfriend who nurtured me to become more feminine. Nevertheless, i agree with your post. You would be surprised that here in Malaysia... schools are imposing the rule that girls cannot flaunt their legs. Even though its from the knee below. We are forced to wear long track pants even when the weather is hot. They expect us to run in these things? I represented my school in marathons and the international school students were allowed to wear comfortable shorts.
Yeah public schools here are narrow minded. They think girls are the reasons for rape cases.
Anyway lovely outfit you put on. cute pose too!
cute pics
i love the socks, sweet posing too
Lovely outfit...
Serious note though...I agree with Blue Floppy Hat... both men and women hold judgement as to what is deemed proper or improper...
If guys still hold this really quite outdated attitude towards the way women dress, they need to bear in mind whether the woman in question is acting provocatively in ANY way other than showing a bit of leg.... if not, they should just put up and shut up.
Fantastic post - really enjoyed reading it.
Love the outfit too :)
Very interesting post! and I love your look!
it was a pencil skirt past my knees, and I wore fishnets with medium sized heels.
I love the connotations that come from men and women alike about women who wear fishnets or textured tights. I had this conversation with a coworker the other day. She had on a beautiful and textured pair of tights, crochet, with jeans and heels. That morning she had debated if it was too whoreish. I've always thought that a textured tight was a beautiful way to add detail to an outfit.
Obviously, I'm a harlot for advocating as such.
Very well said! I once attended a church that had very strict rules about the way women dressed. It was to prevent the men from being "tempted". I never bought the idea that men were not able to "control themselves" and women were to blame for their mis-steps. Your outfits prove that you can be modest and still be fashionable.
your flats are so cute!
Regarding your statement about whether or not any Christian should be wealthy, consider a situation where you work very hard and are given money as a reward. For example, what if you spent a long time doing a photo shoot, fixing the results with PhotoShop, and then you sell the rights to the photo.
Assuming that you tithe an amount that you are comfortable with, shouldn't it be okay to accept the rewards of your hard work? Perhaps prosperity is a blessing.
^Anonymous, I quite agree that there is nothing wrong with making a profit. The arguement the other side provides is that everything you receive should be conferred back to others until you are once again living at bare necessity. I think this whole idea is ridiculous--noble, but unrealistic. You can give of yourself in ways other than just financial and I don't think God is against you owning a nice home or paying for your children's education!
Thank for this post! (Sorry I am just catching up with your blog since I am travelling for the holidays) I really like you point about the rules for "modesty" - and "sexiness" for that matter - being written by men for women. This is more than true, unfortunately in our seemingly progressive society. It's a real problem, but that is one of the reasons I love fashion so much, i because a lot of the times the most creative designers try to mess with that kind of cultural legibility...
Hi Rebecca! I hope it's not too weird that I was looking thru some of your earlier blog posts. Anyway, I found this post and thought it was really interesting and I completely agree with you about being annoyed by people telling you what you can/can't wear because it's immodest. While I've never had a guy tell me to change something I'm wearing, I have had some females do so. It's kind of a tough topic *sigh* but I really liked/agreed with your thoughts on it! :)(I should add that I am a Christian, and therefore a lot of the people I know are very into being "modest" etc)
Found this post while peeking through your archives. I really appreciate this post as a feminist Christian. It's well written and very thoughtful. My husband and I periodically have conversations on who is responsible for "men's sexual urges." Both of us were raised in conservative churches that foisted it mostly on women to dress in a way that doesn't cause men to stumble. However as I grow and learn in my feminism, I'm happy to say our conversations have made him more aware of how impossible that is because each man has his own limits and should ultimately control himself. It's much like this satirical video on preventing rape: http://contexts.org/socimages/2010/04/08/who-should-rape-prevention-campaigns-address. It discusses how all the rape prevention advice is aimed at women, instead of telling men not to rape.
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